When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. Kyle . The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. Fourth, no one takes Taurus seriously. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. Canadian soldier. He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. Would you? That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. (unless theyre SWAT or something). LOL! You have entered an incorrect email address! No picture for me. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. That could happen easily. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. Sound familiar? Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. They function as commanded every time. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. On Thursday, M.D. I carry one in my front pocket routinely. The Glock fails on both counts. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. And the idea some random comment section P320 hater thinks theyre smarter & more knowledgeable than the Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and Marine Corp combined regarding military pistol selection is just freaking laughable! I agree. Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. Search Texas Statutes. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. It nicely describes what has to happen in a striker-fired P320 for an un-commanded discharge to happen as the plaintiffs have claimed. Plastic crap! The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. . 01:10. The fact is that the plaintiffs will get paid regardless of who did what. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. Ditto; that's what i was getting at earlier Bear007 Custom Aug 25, 2021 #18 Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. Ron, Anyway my question for $600 would be: Did you have your 3rd wife killed? It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. But were way past the days of major league, internationally known gunmakers turning out complete crap, selling it and the public living with it. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. congrats. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. He was told to shoot two rounds. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. Where is that defect now? Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. Thats deflecting from the real issue. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. It did not originally have this. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. Then when the gun still wouldnt operate right, field stripped it and cleared the debris, but didnt understand the gun enough to realize it was now super broken. D. All polymer guns are cheap, cheap, cheap to make, thats why I threw the Taurus name into the mix. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. I just separate Shatner the man from Kirk the character, which he plays with Shakespearian operatic perfection. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. Face it, you paid far too much for a plastic gun. If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). A fine of up to $10,000. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. Was it his fault? This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM L. LRRifleman . I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. Yes, conspiracy to defraud is a thing when ones @ss is on the line. Bravo. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. You arent a gunfighter, either. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. . Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. Dont care for them, not my jam. Training and experience are not a talisman that magically prevents accidents. The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. Whether or not the suits have merit. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. Finger on the trigger and muzzle discipline are sometimes unheralded. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. Theyre the only product that is not. . Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. Still waiting. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. He probably had a double until it was over. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. Is it? Folks disagree on brands. All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. I have no idea. Really? Weird how that might happen. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. It was one of the first ones and was sent back as a voluntary upgrade. The new guy sucks. The SIG will be the shortest military contract for guns in history. Asking for a friend. JTF-2 is the only unit in. Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. That focus drifts. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. And thats just my opinion. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. You couldnt ask questions. Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. Then Weve got to go 9mm Nato. And hasnt been nothing but looking for the holy grail since. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? Sigs are crap! The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. Because its flat out bull**it. Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. It alleges that Walter Collette, Jr., a police officer with the Somerville (Mass.) Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions.